Your Startup's Real Problem Isn't Tech, It's This
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In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Marcus East—Tech Executive and Author of Working with Dinosaurs—for a candid and thought-provoking conversation on the realities of digital transformation. With a career spanning leadership roles at Apple, Google, National Geographic, and more, Marcus brings a rare dual perspective from both Big Tech and legacy enterprises.
They unpack why most digital transformation efforts fail despite heavy investment, what separates successful tech leaders from those who merely talk innovation, and how culture—not just code—can make or break your future. Marcus shares powerful real-world stories: from National Geographic’s transformation into a digital juggernaut, to the organizational inertia that derails billion-dollar initiatives. He outlines the “three dinosaurs” that stall progress—legacy systems, outdated operating models, and people unwilling to change—and offers sharp insights into why customer obsession beats tech obsession every time.
Whether you lead a startup or a Fortune 500, this episode will challenge your assumptions, sharpen your thinking, and equip you with frameworks to lead meaningful change in an AI-driven world.
Takeaways
- Legacy companies don’t fail because of age—they fail when they refuse to update thinking while technology advances.
- Successful transformations require both visionary leadership and operational discipline across the org.
- Billions in digital investment are wasted when the right people aren’t empowered to drive change.
- Embedding innovation into the core business beats isolating it in innovation labs.
- Flexible technology is a must—but without true cross-functional collaboration, it's not enough.
- Only about 5% of AI investments currently show ROI, largely due to legacy systems and poor org alignment.
- Top-performing organizations operate with tight accountability and a focus on measurable outcomes.
- Customer experience—not tech stack—should guide transformation priorities.
- Large “grand projects” that last years often fail to deliver value or ROI.
- Elite talent gravitates toward environments with high standards, fast iteration, and meaningful impact.
- Companies that can’t attract top talent must either lead with a compelling mission or lean into strategic partnerships.
- People are the hardest "dinosaur" to evolve—fixing culture and mindset is harder than replacing tech.
Chapters
00:00 Intro & Guest Introduction
01:30 Why Some Legacy Companies Transform & Others Fail
03:45 The Real Problem: People & Culture
06:20 The Innovation Lab Trap
08:15 The First Domino: Flexible Tech & Cross-Team Collaboration
10:25 Build vs. Buy in the Age of Cloud
12:30 AI Hype vs. ROI Reality
14:20 Leadership’s Role in Driving Transformation
17:55 Customer-First Thinking Over Tech Fetishism
21:30 The Dangers of Tech-First Transformation
23:45 Why Accountability is the Missing Link
29:45 Why Elite Tech Talent Clusters (and Leaves)
34:00 Rest & Vest vs. Impact-Driven Professionals
41:45 What If You Can’t Attract Top Talent?
47:00 The Three Dinosaurs: People, Tech, Models
53:30 Why Outdated Processes Are More Dangerous Than Tech
57:00 Extreme Accountability as a Performance Driver
59:15 Books, Billboards & Final Thoughts
Marcus East’s Social Media Link:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcuseast/
Resources and Links:
